Cuttin' in on the Mob...
A Conversation with:
William Stich, Sidney Wolinsky
and Conrad Gonzalez
The Picture Editors on 'The Sopranos'
by Scott Essman
In the spring of 1999, after just 13 episodes, the HBO series 'The Sopranos' had created as much buzz as any TV program in recent memory. The brainchild of executive producer David Chase, 'The Sopranos' is now into its second season. It features a dynamic cast with production values that are polished but never obtrusive. Already, the show has returned to the forefront of both public and critical attention, garnering Golden Globe awards for best dramatic television program, for its two leads-James Gandolfini and Edie Falco-and for supporting actress Nancy Marchand. What's more, editor William Stich, A.C.E. has received an Eddie nomination for his work on last season's finale.
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William Stich, Sidney Wolinsky and Conrad Gonzalez |
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'The Sopranos' is a prime example of the popularity that television programs can achieve without the support of the major networks. After Chase developed the basic idea for the show, none of the big four networks were interested. This blessing-in-disguise eventually lead Chase to HBO, where the show is appropriately free from the effects of censorship. Hence, 'The Sopranos' offers viewers an unbridled look into the world of a Mafia boss (Gandolfini) and the two "families" with whom he struggles-in his domestic life and his business life. The intimacy with which the show's characters are presented, combined with the energy of its plotlines, makes for powerful and compelling entertainment.
In this interview, conducted in early January, the current season's three picture editors - Conrad Gonzalez, Stich, and Sidney Wolinsky - offer their thoughts on all things Soprano. The three exuded confidence and pleasure as they spoke about the elements that comprise 'The Sopranos'.
How
exciting is it to work on a show that has
so quickly achieved this much popularity?
Conrad
Gonzalez: Part of you is
excited about it, and another part of you is almost
wondering if it's really happening. In all my years in the
business, I haven't ever been attached to a hit of this
magnitude. It's thrilling to see it happen for David Chase
because he's one of the few filmmakers I've worked with
who's had such a singular vision.
In what ways would you say that is true?
CG:
David is very
particular and just knows what he wants. It's not that he
doesn't experiment or try things during the cuts, but he has
a certain sensibility and a strong vision of how he sees the
show. He truly uses the post-production process as a final
rewrite, unlike many TV shows where they're more attached to
their words and scenes and moments. The Sopranos takes on a
new life in post because David will get in there and really
cut an episode.
Why would
this show, which shoots in New York and
New Jersey, have its post-production occur in Los Angeles?
CG:
The decision was
made because David comes back to his home in Los Angeles to
work with us directly after principal photography is
completed on the season's episodes. During production, we
send tapes back and forth, get notes from David, and send
cuts to him back east.
How is that system organized?
CG:
We try to
deliver a really terrific first cut, a foundation to start
from. While he's on location, David views the shows by
himself, his assistant takes down notes, and they get faxed
to us. We execute the notes and Fed-Ex the cuts back to him.
What we lose is the one-to-one interaction with him in the
cutting room, but David's notes are so direct and specific,
it all works out.
How do you feel about the secrecy in which the show is shrouded?
William
Stich: It's very
important for the series because it has this enormous
artistic aspect. The whole process is very secretive. David
wants to keep it
that way so that when an episode airs, the audience doesn't know what they're going to get and it's more fun. Part of the show's premise is to keep everything a secret.
When is it determined who is going to cut various episodes among you?
Sidney
Wolinsky: It is simply a
rotation: each of us cuts every third show. The only
decision is the order in which each person starts. There are
thirteen episodes, and I cut the first one, so I cut five in
total, and Bill and Conrad cut four each.
Could
this show be produced at the same quality level
if it were a full season's worth of episodes?
CG:
I think a lot of
care is taken with the scripts,so I'm not sure that that
many scripts of that quality could be generated in the same
amount of time.
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SW:
They shoot an
episode in eight or nine days, depending on the complexity
of the show.
CG:
Normally the
intention is to shoot an entire edpisode and then move on,
but because there are so many company moves in every show
they don't always achieve it. They lose a lot of time and
sometimes work ungodly hours to get the show done. As the
season progresses, we inevitably see some additional
shooting either because things were missed in the original
shoot or, less frequently, for story reasons.
With three of you editing and at least five directors working on various episodes, is it difficult to edit 'The Sopranos' in a consistent manner?
WS:
It' s basically
the David Chase show, and you get a feeling for his pacing
through the scripts. You're not dealing with three or four
producers, you're dealing with David Chase, and he lets you
know where he's trying to go with in the direction of a
scene. It's not like we're just randomly doing something and
then making changes for one producer who has an idea how a
scene is supposed to be, then going in and trying to
restructure it again for another producer who has a
different idea. We're dealing with one vision, which is
David Chase's.
Doesn't that limit your ability to bring creative ideas to the show?
WS:
I don't think
that David ever squelches anything that we want to do
creatively, but there is a direction that he has in all of
the shows. It's a major plus that we're dealing with his
vision. I may go off in a direction and he has never said,
'I hate that.' He'll let you try something, and then he'll
rein you back in if you're going the wrong way. I don't
feel, as an editor, that David would ever turn to me and
say, 'Stop being creative. This is the way I'm going to do
it. It's my show' He always has said that this process is
very collaborative, but it's nice to have a vision that you
can follow; as a film editor, that's great.
CG:
The nature of
what we do is help other people realize their vision, and
it's easier to do that if the person you're working with
knows what they want. The more the person knows what they're
after, the easier it is to help them get to that
place.
SW:
The more input I
can get from the people I'm working with, the better I can
function to help them get what they want.
With
regards to your involvement as a team,
how does the Sopranos maintain such a consistent tone from
show to show?
CG:
One of the
things that's valuable to us, in terms of how David sees
each scene, is that we have tone meetings before each
production. It's usually attended by David, the director of
that show's episode, the writer of that show, a few key
production people, and the editor. They conference us on the
telephone while they meet in New York, and we go through the
script, beat by beat, scene by scene. Thus, David makes the
dramatic intent of the scene perfectly clear to the
director. Then, we take that knowledge from the tone meeting
and we're able to facilitate that into our first cuts-our
thoughts have already been impregnated with the specific
intentions for the script. That's very valuable in the sense
that we're not really interpreting in regards to the
editor's cut. On the other hand, David respects our
craftsmanship and gives us a lot of free reign in terms of
how we cut the shows. Then he just gets very specific about
the pace, and works the script in the final cut.
What is the outcome of the tone meetings from the editors' point of view?
SW:
We have the
opportunity to ask questions if we don't understand
something in the script, and the production people will have
an opportunity to get things clarified. Everyone starts the
show on the same page, no pun intended.
Once a
show has been shot, how long do you get to create
your editor's cut before the director's
involvement?
SW:
We have five
days after we get our last dailies to present an editor's
cut to the director of that episode. Typically, we send the
editor's cut to the director, or sit down with the director
and look at the editor's cut, depending on where the
director is. And then the director contractually has four
days for his cut. That's the DGA stipulation on a one-hour
show. Then the episode goes to David, and he has as long as
he wants until the airdate.
Can you
describe your interaction with the director
during the four days he has for his cut?
SW:
If the director
is in Los Angeles, he will come to the cutting room, and
either run the show and give us notes, or run the show and
sit with us while we execute the notes. If he's in New York,
we go through the same procedure with him as we go through
with David, which is, we send him a cut, and he will give
you notes over the phone. Sometimes you'll spend a number of
hours on the phone while he runs the show and gives you
notes. Then you will execute his notes, send him the cut,
get more notes, and finalize his cut. Once it's locked, it
is sent to David.
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CG:
If directors in
series TV are successful, they have a whole season of
commitments to do various shows, so they usually have to
move on to prep their next show. On The Sopranos, two of our
directors do outside work, and our one staff director, Alan
Coulter, is very meticulous and very involved in his
director's cuts. He has a clear vision of how he shoots it
and how each scene is worked out thematically. He likes to
get on the phone and go over the show for two hours while
he's running his cassette with you at your Avid. But again,
in series TV, it's an executive producer's medium, not the
director's, as in feature films.
Is each of you often cutting more than one episode at a time as the shooting company completes their work on your different episodes?
WS:
Yes, but that's
the basic nature of series television. I've never worked on
a series television show where it's, 'Oh, boy! I'm done with
my show. Now I can go start cutting on my new one.' And it
makes it difficult to jump back and forth between your
episodes. Our producer (and one of the episodes' directors)
Martin Bruestle is very good about adjusting the schedule,
so that, if we are in an editor's cut on an episode, and get
notes from David on another episode, we can address those
notes and then go back to the show that's in its editor's
cut without losing the time we need to complete it. Then
David has a chance to look at that show and then we can try
to get our first cut together.
CG:
Also, we have
terrific assistants (April Lawrence, Gerald Valdez, and
Lynne Whitlock), who are highly organized and make that all
easy for us. The shows are all on line and we have enough
memory in our drives to carry all of our shows with us
simultaneously.
In what format is the show produced and edited?
SW:
It is shot in
35mm, shipped here for processing at CFI and telecined onto
Digital Betacam at Riot. Then we receive 3/4-inch video
dailies that we digitize into the Avid. For air, we do an
on-line - associate producer Gregg Glickman supervises all
of the final finishing, and Martin Bruestle supervises the
sound dub and music.
How are a majority of the songs and music chosen for the show?
WS:
Sometimes the
scripts specifically say, 'For this scene, so-and-so is
playing in the background.' Martin and David work very
closely on the music for The Sopranos. Martin is constantly
working to find new and different music for the show. David
may say, 'Hey, Martin, let's see if we can get this song for
here,' so Martin is constantly on the move, trying to figure
things out.
For this year's first episode, the choice of FrankSinatra's 'It Was a Very Good Year' in the opening montage helped set the tone for this entire season.
SW:
That was chosen
at the script stage. They played the song back on the set to
kind of get the pace of it, but it wasn't really shot to the
song.
To what degree do you all follow the scripts?
WS:
In a first cut,
the way I was trained, you follow the script. Every director
or executive producer that I've ever worked for wants to see
first what's written on the paper. Then they'll move scenes
around and change things, but the script is what they
bought. If you run into a problem, and you can't make a
transition, or you feel that something should go in an area,
you can talk to them and do it. But on this show, you put
your cut together per the written page.
SW:
Our job is to
figure out how to tell the story in the scenes. We don't
omit lines; we put everything in script order. Sometimes you
get a phone call saying, 'I shot something a certain way.
Try it this specific way.' But that is the exception rather
than the rule.
CG:
It's part of the
job as an editor to interpret the footage, unless you're
given specific notes on how to put it together. But I find
that it's always more comfortable for me to figure out how
the pieces of the puzzle go together. Editing is a very
instinctual job where a lot of what you do comes from your
gut. Ultimately what I try to put in my first cut is what
works for me. Unless you worked with a director that had a
very clear vision, and he could just spell it out for you, I
think that's really what the editor's job is. I think all
three of us take pride in the choices we make in our first
cuts. And, on this show, much of a good first cut's internal
editing will survive the final cut.
Could The Sopranos work as effectively on one of the big three networks?
WS:
You wouldn't
have the nudity, the profanity, and the violence in it, but
I think the show would still have the conflicts, which, to
me, is why most people enjoy the show: the drama between
Tony and his mother, his children and his wife. Even though
the profanity couldn't be used, those inherent relationships
would still work. And I think that on the other side of the
family that he deals with, being the Mafia side, those
conflicts would still work, too. Because it's on HBO, we now
have a great deal of freedom, but I think the scripts are
structured well enough that they could still survive and it
would be a popular show on a network.
SW:
It's one of
those hypothetical questions, but I think everything would
be so different if this were a network show, that it would
just be an alternate universe. From the very ground up, it
would be different-having nothing to do with us. Would the
casting be the same? Would the same scriptwriters be hired,
apart from David? Would the schedule be the same? There'd be
a demand for more-they'd have to be doing 20 to 25
shows.
CG:
I think the show
would probably be neutered, and the conflicts wouldn't be
allowed to be as extreme; they might try to make, for
example, Tony Soprano's mother, Livia, more likable. We
wouldn't be allowed to go to the extremes that we go to.
They'd try to reach more of a cross-section audience. We
couldn't go over the edge, press the envelope. I don't know
that it would as successful-the tone of the show would
surely be altered.
Is it an
extra plus to have a leading man like James Gandolfini
around whom you can build your scenes?
CG:
Oh yes. I coined
the phrase 'Gandolfini, the man with a thousand
expressions.' Sometimes he says more with silent reactions
than he does with the written word, and he goes to places
inside of himself and pulls these looks up. It's rare that
an actor has that ability to go to so many different
places.
WS:
He's always
working and gives you a performance that is sometimes
unbelievable, unusual and new. It's a pleasure, but I think
that goes for all the cast. I can't think of times where I
get bad performances.
Do you
think the manner in which you create the individual
episodes
of this show approximates the way in which you work on a
feature film?
WS:
It depends on
the director. Some are very expeditious with their film
because they have their vision of how they want the scene to
go together. With other directors, you'll get a lot of
footage, and it's not because they don't have a vision; it's
just what they do -- they just shoot a lot of film. On this
show, we generally average an hour, sometimes up to an hour
and a half of dailies, which is not above the norm.
CG:
My answer would
be yes. As I mentioned earlier the show started production
in early July but our first airdate wasn't until
mid-January. Because of this we have the rare opportunity to
take our time in post, which is contrary to most television
series' post schedules. David is afforded the time to work
with us to make the best shows possible. A typical
'Sopranos' episode might go through a dozen or more major
recuts. In this respect, we have the luxury to shape our
shows much like you would on a feature.
What will
the remainder of your schedules consist of now
that the second season has wrapped?
SW:
They will finish
shooting in a few days. Then, David will be back here, and
we'll start to lock all the shows.Within about a month, by
the end of February, I think we'll be all finished.
William,
what was your reaction to being nominated
for an ACE Eddie Award for your work on the show?
WS:
It's a terrific
honor, and David is a very exciting person to work with.
He's a wonderful filmmaker-- he cares about the product that
he's working on. It's a thrill to work with him and I'm
enormously proud and happy for myself, especially since it
happened on The Sopranos -- I know that a lot of what went
on in the cutting room came from David. I feel very
fortunate because this show is a lot of work, but it's fun,
too. And it's nice, getting paid to work on something that's
fun.
Reprinted from
The Motion Picture Editors Guild Newsletter
Vol. 21, No. 1 - Jan/Feb 2000
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