From Editor to Director to Producer A Conversation with Randy Roberts, A.C.E. Interview by Nick Spark Randy Roberts, A.C.E., has had a long career as a television ("L.A. Law", "Alfred Hitchcock Presents") and feature ("One from the Heart", "Straight Time") editor. He is also one of a select group of editors who have sat in the directing chair ("Miami Vice", "L.A. Law", "Chicago Hope"). Currently, he's working as the supervising producer on CBS's "Early Edition", a one-hour drama which he edited during its 1997 pilot season. For the second season in a row, he will also direct an episode. It seems that you are keeping fairly busy, directing an episode of the same show that you are post supervising. Yes, that's true. I was in Chicago directing for the first three weeks of this series. I directed the second episode, so I prepped while they were shooting the first. And this year the show is being done in high-definition for the first time, so I'm coming in to post three weeks late with high-def to deal with. They said there won't be any difference, of course, but there are differences. Tonight we're doing our first high-def online. What are some of the issues you're facing to prepare the show for HDTV? Well, we're cutting the show just like any other show, but we're transferring our 35mm negative in high-def format, which is 24 frames. And we're editing here on the Avid at 30, so we have to make two different tapes. HD is 16:9 format, squeezed, like a Cinemascope picture. We'll take the 4:3 out of the center for normal television and broadcast a high-def signal at the same time. No one has done this before. CBS is the only network that has gone high-def so far, and I don't think anyone has onlined an entire one-hour show yet. There are some problems. We steal a lot of shots out of earlier shows. These elements have to be pulled and transferred to high-def. And we're finding that not all of our negative is stored very well. Another thing, the hero of our show gets yesterday's paper today, and we do slow-motion, black-and-white flash-forward sequences that are supposed to look like they're coming right out of the paper - like newsprint. We actually output those sequences on our Avid and use them as our online masters, because every time I go to online the shots [worked on at the post house] look too good. Now I have a new problem: We need to use our Avid output as an HD master, and the post house doesn't know how to do that. Being on the cutting edge can draw blood, can't it? Well, it's fun. I like being the first to do things. I cut "Jaws 3-D" and I actually had Eagle Eye build a KEM that you could watch 3-D on. By the way, don't see that movie if it's not in 3-D! There are cuts where an arm is hanging out for 15 seconds and you keep saying, "Why didn't that guy cut?" Well, 'cause the arm is floating out into your face, see? I also got into video with Francis Coppola with "One from the Heart" in 1982. At that time there was no video editing system, so we made one. We programmed a computer to translate SMPTE into edge-code numbers. It was totally linear, and I could drop five generations copying tape to tape. I had to recut scenes after five generations because you couldn't see the code numbers anymore. So the Avid must seem like a dream come true? You work with what you have to work with. Editing is a mental process. You give an editor a light bulb, a pair of scissors and a little Scotch tape and you'll get Gone with the Wind. The bad thing about these machines, by the way, is that people think they can cut because they can run one. But there is a difference between being able to run an Avid and being an editor. Editing isn't something where you wake up one morning and say, "I'm an artist, I'm going to go edit." Watching films isn't going to make you into an editor, either. Editors have this knowledge, and their speed comes from repetition. If someone in a scene is walking through a door, I know where to make the cut. If you are not an editor, you try here and there and there and there. How did you end up working in post production? My uncle, Sam O'Steen, was a film editor - one of the best ever - and I used to hang out in his cutting room at Warner Bros. That's when I decided I wanted to be a film editor. They used to play a lot of gin - back then all the editors were on staff, and when it was slow they would play gin - and I found out that if you could keep score in gin you could become an assistant, because they hated to keep score. Any reason why you were more interested in editing than, say, cinematography? Yeah. When I was a kid I used to build models and I never looked at the directions. And to me that is basically what editing is. They give you this box full of all these parts, and they have a script which is like the picture on the box. Then you get to put all these pieces together and form your own film. What stands out from your early career? Didn't you work with the "Duke" at one point? "The Cowboys" with John Wayne, on location in New Mexico and Colorado. Bob Swink and Neil Travis were co-editing and I was the assistant on location. It was one of the great experiences of my life. They let me cut my first sequence, which I will never forget: John Wayne riding through a ghost town. Mark Rydell shot nine different angles. I cut the Duke looking left and you saw left, I cut him looking right and you saw right. I cut that thing like you can't believe. And then I looked at it and said, "Bob, I think it looks better in the master." And he said, "I know. Ha!" That's why he gave it to me. When did you move up? My uncle gave me shared credit on a Dustin Hoffman feature, "Straight Time", in 1972. Dustin got me my next picture, "Players", for Bob Evans and Anthony Harvey. Then I cut Rob Cohen's first feature, "A Small Circle of Friends", and two features for Francis Coppola, "Hammett" and "One from the Heart". And this is all by the time I was 35. Then Alex Beaton, an ex-editor who was producing a television series at Universal, said he wanted to hire me. I didn't really want to do television, so I asked for a whole lot of money and they said no. Then I said, "Well, let me direct an episode," thinking they'd say no again. And they said yes! So in '86 I ended up going over to Universal and supervising the editing of the "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" TV series, and also directing an episode. That's an interesting way to end up in television. Well, people ask me how they can become television directors, and I think you always have to have something to trade. I had producers who felt that my editing talent was worth giving me a directing shot to get me to edit. That's how actors and writers become directors. If you have a talent that producers want, they will give you a shot. Was your editing experience much help on Hitchcock? Not as much as I thought. You don't learn how to direct anywhere except directing. My first production meeting, I didn't know what a production meeting was! But directing was the most fun I ever had. It was a half-hour show with five days to shoot, which is unheard of today. It was really great. On the second show, I fell into the trap of thinking that it was an easy job. I didn't prep, I didn't prepare, and it jumped up and bit me. I can't even look at that today. So you were lulled into complacency. Well, it's harder than it looks. I sat there for 10 years, saying, "I can direct better than that!" And then you get there and ooh, it's tough. Everyone says, "Hi, you crossed the line. How did you ever cross the line?" Well, you get six people in a room and try not crossing the line, because the line keeps moving and people are looking 10 different directions. It drives you crazy. Obviously, you haven't pursued directing full time. Why is that? The thing I found out by directing episodic is that you are a hired gun. You are the stranger on the set. The actors have much more control than you have, the writers want it this way, the producers want it that way. I had much more control as a film editor than I had as a director. Any advice for editors out there who are looking to direct? I always tell every editor that if you want to direct, start going to the production meetings. A big problem with making the move from editing to directing or producing is your communication skills, because you don't develop communication skills in the cutting room. It is you and that film. Right now, for instance, I have a staff of 12 people who I have to communicate with every day. On a set, it's like 60 people standing there with their arms folded asking, "What should we do?" Is it difficult for you to watch someone else cut a show you directed? Well, I'm much better than I used to be. In fact, Warren Bowman, who has cut the last couple of shows I directed, said, "You've been back for three weeks and you haven't even tried to touch the mouse yet." I think I finally got over it. I can actually sit back, tell an editor what I want, get up and walk out and come back and judge it. You've said before that the editor's work is more apparent in TV than it is in features. Why is that? On features, sometimes you'll work on one for a year. I sat for a director on one show for 18 months and he changed every cut nine times. There isn't one cut of the first cut left after a year, so by the end it is not your show anymore. Television is different because of the time pressure. TV is harder to cut, because you don't have the film and you don't have the time. Sometimes we have four days from the end of dailies before we have to online. And it's just, wow, are all the words on the screen? Let's talk about your job at Early Edition. You're supervising producer on the show, right? I call myself a "predator" because I'm a producer-editor! There are more people doing this now, because television producers are coming out of the writing ranks and don't know post. They know what they like but they don't know the process. So executive producers are finding talented editors, moving them up and relying on them. It seems to make sense that a post supervisor have editing experience. Yeah. Most post supervisors come up from being p.a.'s. My whole thing is that they should come up from being editors or assistant editors. It's all about post production. If a director screws up a show, I can fix it faster than having the executive producer - who's trying to write 22 of these things - be in this cutting room. That's where I think I am the biggest help. Any advice for us struggling assistants? Ride the pony 'til it dies. Don't ever quit a job - you'll regret it in the long run. And I've quit some jobs. My other motto is, if you've never been fired, you're not working enough. Actually the best advice for any editor or assistant is, be true to the film. Let the film tell the story. And it will. Just be true to the film.   Nick Spark is an assistant editor.   Reprinted from The Motion Picture Editors Guild Newsletter Vol. 20, No. 6 - Sep/Oct 1999   Guild Home | Newsletter Home | Top of Page   Copyright © 1999, All Rights Reserved by The Motion Picture Editors Guild, IATSE Local 700